Developer’s Update

Edit: eihrul’s statement

Recently, our beloved developer eihrul posted a question on the cube engine forum regarding the rendering path for the next edition of Sauerbraten. The responses to the post were unanimously in favor of eihrul’s suggestion. The bleeding edge version of Sauerbraten will now require your graphics card to support at least OpenGL 2.1. You can check out the bleeding edge repository here. To summarize in layman’s terms:

– Shaders will be required to play

More spectacular shader effects can be used

– Players with older chipsets will no longer be able to play

– The codebase would be easier to understand

Please share your thoughts!

 

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56 Comments

  1. Jumper

    Well the first thing is that I am very pleased that eihrul is working under a new release of sauerbraten because I thought that he won’t make it. About all those updates: I guess most of sauerbraten players has a good enough computers to handle sauer’s graphics, so if it becomes better – It’s a big step. :)

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  2. star

    It’s very shocking, that those changes are discussed in a halfdead forum, without even reposting it somewhere, where the real gamers could see it. I mean ffs eihurl you are in #sauercom…
    Not even Fohlens newsfeed catcher will be able to index it from cubeengine…

    Result is: The only dudes discussing this change were, some half retired editors, nonames and twatllama who didn’t even bother to mix it into the gamin community (probably being busy clanwaring .

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    1. eihrul

      It may actually render faster with the GLSL path in some cases than the older paths, because the drivers no longer even pretend to support them well anymore.

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      1. star

        That quickly

        THAT QUICKLY

        THAT QUICKLY

        … after all, it’s just been 2 years, no biggidy

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  3. Rexus

    Hmm.. I’m kinda concerned as my computer and laptop are both quite old. A very good reason why I continue to play this game instead of moving to more modern ones is because of how easy it is for my computer to run the game at a steady 150fps. Losing that would kill my reason and I’d probably be less inclined to play.

    I’m all for progress… but only if I can be a part of it :p

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  4. Fatality

    This makes me sad. The reason I play Sauer over any other game is that yes, my computer can handle it unlike most graphic-intensive games. I think that is part of the attraction of this game. Any average person can play it and not have to be a huge gamer with a gaming computer to have fun with it. I don’t think I will be buying new equipment just to play this simple game.

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  5. Acuerta

    Technical question to the developers here:

    What’s stopping e.g. ComEd from releasing a new version where this shader trash isn’t forced?

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    1. star

      Basically, in my case it would be lack of knowledge and good will to do this.
      Keeping the old structures whilst staying compatible to the origin repo would mean constantly fixing stuff, that might get broken with the next svn commit.

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    2. suicizer

      Source-code based mods which rely on vanilla Sauerbraten are always incompatible with a newer version of Sauerbraten (unless it’s just a patch, but even then there’s chance of being incompatible).
      This is due the network protocol gets updated each release also.
      That part should be minor though.

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      1. oethazn

        Is not comed dead? I’ve check the repo and the last change there was around half a year ago. What a shame, how did this happen? :D

        And for serious answer. Using shaders on low detail shouldn’t impact performance on any modern (newer then 10y) video card, as no shaders mode is just a driver emulation based on shaders.

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      2. star

        You aren’t gone? shame, last matches i saw you playing was like a year ago? How did this happen? Winter sleep? Nothing to bitch about? Discoverd girls?

        oh and for a serious answer:
        FUCK YOU

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      3. suicizer

        Please do not insult people or a particular person on the forum or on any other place on Sauerworld.

        Rather be an example of a good user so the community can grow to be more friendly.
        This should considered even more since you’re an administrator, which should be such example for other users (well, that’s one of the responsibilities).

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      4. suicizer

        I’m considering that it is my business as you are replying to me.
        Next to that, Sauerworld is trying to get the Sauerbraten community involved on this website. As I’m part of the community also, it surely is my business.

        It also makes your previous and upcoming comments a joke as you can’t be taken seriously (with the thought “the only thing Star does is insulting other people any way”).

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      5. OETHAZN

        It is one of the few ppl that i have to put in my irc ignore list.

        With such ppl in charge of “the community” it is hopeless to expect something here, that will make sauerbraten a better/modern game.

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      6. neon

        Just to remind you, that u actually started attacking the ComEd developer team, you’re the bad guy over here =)

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      7. OETHAZN

        But it’s a fact, not a criticism or some sort of attack.

        P.S. And in my personal opinion, this “community thing” isn’t going anywhere. It feels like some personal image board, and a separate personal game project.

        P.P.S. You can blame me for this, if you want.

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      8. star

        that might be because of retards like you who are excluding themselves because of some self constructed obsession that projects hate onto this project.

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      9. star

        you see, that’s where you are wrong, it’s not just ‘OUR’ project, EVERYONE is invited. You never got that, did you?

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      10. suicizer

        That link only confirms that you can’t be taken seriously and can’t communicate with other people properly (other than trying to insult them).

        Please do more of such actions; it pleases me to see you act like a fool.

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      11. swatllama

        It pleases me too. It’s funny AND a great message to send to hardliners like you. Sauer is meant to be modified. Custom skins ARE NOT cheats.

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      12. ФЭНТАZИ

        >Sauer is meant to be modified. Custom skins ARE NOT cheats.

        Yes, instead of promoting/discussing obvious must have features/resources into the upstream, let’s just ignore other players, that are not here (the rest 90% of sauer players). And do more talking about “the community”.

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      13. suicizer

        Just because Sauerbraten is meant to be modified doesn’t mean you actually should. Maps are meant to be edited, yet official maps should stay untouched. The same for the source-code; just because the code can be modified doesn’t mean you should do so to get better results at your fragrate.
        Using custom skins (or just modifying the skin) is a pretty dumb move any way as a simple line of code right into the md5.cfg creates similar results.

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      14. swatllama

        Suicizer, this must be reiterated: You are a hardliner idiot. Modifying official maps isn’t an issue if you post it to quadropolis as an improved version and it’s more fun to play. Changing the source code isn’t harmful if you only use it in private and give code to eihrul to review if you think it’d improve sauer.

        Putting new skins in is a shit ton easier than changing the code for all of us, since: Most people don’t have the knowledge to modify the code, and no one wants to dig for it.

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      15. suicizer

        All of your given cases are not corresponding with those of mine.
        I’m talking about modifications to personally gain an advantage towards other players (as in getting an higher frag-rate).
        Please read more careful next time and do not insult particular persons or people.

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      16. swatllama

        No, even before this, you’ve claimed that it’s sinful to modify ANYTHING. And still, you still claim that changing skins is cheating. Please read what you write next time.

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      17. suicizer

        What has been said on previous topics or forum isn’t part of what has been said here.
        Discuss that over there instead of here if you really want to discuss something about months even years ago.

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      18. suicizer

        Those are your words; I haven’t said anything about cheating over here.
        I wonder how we get about this subject in the first place…wait that’s due one of your comments. So stop trolling and get back to the original topic.

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      19. swatllama

        Did Sauerworld reenable adding a lot of nested comments sometime last night just because of this r̶e̶t̶a̶r̶d̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶r̶g̶u̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ discussion?

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      20. star

        Every decent FPS game (quake, counter strike, unreal and on and on) were always designed to let the player choose custom settings, including models, weapons, etc, that would fit his very own personal gaming style. NOBODY IN THE WHOLE WORLD OF COMPETITIVE ONLINEGAMING ever complained about this, but the retards in this fuckin gaming community. Is it because it’s source is open to mod for everyone or is it because there is this EXAGGERATED ANXIETY about dishonesty against EVERY FUCKIN OPONENT?
        … Who the fuck knows (me! (yeah I know, but I don’t tell you (yes, I really think I know the answer to this (like fo real)))) ??????

        Suicizer: you are obviously not a gamer, otherwise you would not whine about others being better ‘just because they use custom skins’. There are A LOT of players around who are incredible kill strong without modifying anything, just because that’s how they like it.
        I have never even seen you play on any server. I mean PLAYING SAUER not editing your crappy maps, which don’t even work with the sauer gameplay.
        You have obviously no idea what you are talking about, as soooo many retarded comments on quadropolis prove.
        Stay out of shit you don’t know shit about, you just make yourself look like an even bigger idiot.

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      21. suicizer

        Then perhaps you are on the wrong server ^^.
        Next to that; we all grow up and have less time to actually play the game frequently. That’s life.

        Once again, please do not act offensive against other users.
        It is an act of unprofessional behaviour; especially from an administrator.
        There is no need to insultor the act violent against people. You can also state your opinion on a more friendly kind of way.
        This is not about getting or being friends, it is just to get a less violent community (as in words).

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      22. star

        didn’t even insult you in this post….

        but now i do, you, so bare with me:
        YOU FUCKIN DELUSIONAL FUCK OF A FUCKIN FUCK FUCK FUCK DUCK FUCK
        your last game was a week ago and in the time you did 144 games,
        i did 6730 games … yes, you are a fuckin gamer bro, a gamer!

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      23. suicizer

        To Star,
        It doesn’t matter how frequently or for how long you’ve been playing Sauerbraten (as I would certainly win then).
        Everyone has the right to give his opinion.
        Stop being selfish by not letting others have a different opinion. Just accept it. That’s also part of the responsibilities of being admin (I know, sometimes a tough job).

        To swatllama,
        What has been said on previous topics or forum isn’t part of what has been said here.
        Discuss that over there instead of here if you really want to discuss something about months even years ago.

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      24. swatllama

        No, they’re relevant because they give a view on your hardliner ideas. Everything can be brought in as evidence for an argument.

        For what you said to Star, his point is that you don’t actually know anything about the game. You just idle on cubeengine forums and quadropolis yakking your ass off.

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      25. suicizer

        That’s your opinion.
        Nevertheless, that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have an opinion at all.

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      26. suicizer

        They are not relevant as people change during time and so their thoughts do.

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      27. ФЭНТАZИ

        >I’m talking about modifications to personally gain an advantage towards other players (as in getting an higher frag-rate).

        It is not that advantageous, and everyone uses those here, and thinks that it is ok. So instead some ppl will play the game, lets enjoy empty, but fair servers. Also this games has like none really gameplay related updates over last 10y, so using custom skins/clients looks like the only way to smooth game experience. It will be great to have many thing in the default game, but for a project hosted on a site, that got in malware site lists, chances are mere.

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      28. swatllama

        Nades got more powerful ( a little too powerful for me. I did very well with the old ones), and pistol got fucked. But you’re right, no good ones, except pistol damage used to be 40 before I played. 25 was a better value. But yeh, your point still stands.

        Though I dunno what the fuck you’re talking about with malware site lists. If this or any sauer site is in that, then those lists got fucked up.

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      29. swatllama

        Sozzy, that makes sense. I knew they were adopting projects, didn’t know about the malware.

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  6. eihrul

    It should be clarified that the main point was never to have “more spectacular effects” – as I stated, it was just nice to have the option to have them, if we wanted – nor do I really have any plans for such options at the moment.

    The point is more that actually running in the older modes on newer drivers can both result in a loss of performance and stability (crashes, visual artifacts, etc.), so that, if anything, the game will actually run better for most by forcing shaders on.

    If you can play with shaders on now, you can play with them on in the next release. This is not the end of the world, it is just a measure to ensure, if anything, continuance. The code will be smaller and easier to deal with as a bonus, leaner and meaner.

    And the floor is OpenGL 2.1, not 3.0 as misstated above. OpenGL 2.1 is a 10 year old standard, which almost everyone has GPUs that support. This is probably one of the least controversial and most overdue changes to the code I have ever made. Please stop with the gloom and doom.

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    1. swatllama

      I want fancier effects! =)

      Shaders are enabled by default, aren’t they? So pretty much, if you didn’t disable them the first few times you played sauer, it’ll perform the same?

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